Flywheel needs SERIOUS nerf
FERR1TE opened this issue · 4 comments
How do you think these two windmills compare?
They're fairly similarly sized, loosely the same difficulty to build, both certainly look like they'd produce about the same amount of power.
The left windmill, with 32 sails, is producing 2048 stress units, which isn't too bad for early-game power with Create.
The right one, producing 32 RF/t, is also fairly decent early-game power by IE's standards.
In both cases, you would expect a player to build a few of these during the early-midgame to power some low-tech appliances as they progress.
Utilising four of the flywheel devices I mentioned in this issue with IE, the right windmill is producing a whopping 65,536 stress units. That's the equivalent of 32 of the left windmill.
This means that with an almost negligible amount of RF, it is possible to make a lot of the really interesting power generation solutions Create has to offer become completely obsolete, which is really unfortunate. Create and IE are both very similar themed 1.16 mods that will appear in a lot of packs together, and this emergent mechanic undermines a lot of what Create has to offer for powergen.
Furthermore, if/when Create does implement official RF support, if this issue goes unnoticed, it could potentially create infinite power exploits. This would definitely ruin the fun of both mods.
The flywheel has to be nerfed, or have its mechanic changed.
Unless this is done, Create's power generation will feel extremely cheap in any modpack that features RF. One of the following solutions is required:
- The stress units provided by the flywheel could be nerfed by a factor of around 32, which would make the two windmill technologies fair and competitive.
- The flywheel could utilise its own boiler/engine block that can't be interacted with by mods that can interact with furnaces.
I am in favour of the former, as it opens up many possibilities for transferring between mechanical and electrical energy in modpacks in a more balanced way, whereas the latter would be taking away a really interesting emergent property of the two mods. If the latter was implemented, it would have to be done alongside a new RF -> torque mechanic, such as electric motors.
It's such a cool emergent mechanic that has a lot of use cases, but in its current state it's completely undermining Create's power system.
This issue has been marked as stale because it has been inactive for 3 weeks. It will be closed if it remains inactive for another 3 weeks.
This issue has been closed since it has been inactive for 3 weeks since it was marked as stale.
Here are some numbers for comparison:
That windmill: 2048 su
Max windmill: 8192 su
All four furnace furnace engines (FFE): 65536 su
If the furnace engines used blast furnaces (BFE): 131072 su
That is quite a lot of stress, but that's a little misleading.
If coal has 24,000RF of energy, and burns in 1600 tick, the power output of a FFE is 15RF/tick
https://teamcofh.com/docs/1.12/thermal-expansion/steam-dynamo/
24,000RF/1,600tick=15RF/tick
(Same conversion for 1.16 thermal)
That means that only two furnaces should be running. That, however, does not make up for the difference.
It should also be noted that the industrial forgoing generator gives coal an energy of 128,000 RF, though this seems like a RF race to the bottom.
Here are some su to FT/t comparisons:
burning coal:
FFE: 15RF/tick to 65536su -> 4,400su x t/RF
BFE: 15RF/tick to 2^20su x rpm -> 8,700 su x t/RF
Windmill:
early game 15RF/tick to 2048 su x rpm -> 140 su x t/RF
late game 33RF/tick to 8192 su x rpm -> 250 su x t/RF
I think aiming for 256 su x t/RF is a good target.
Although this shouldn't happen in create or IE.
Stress is valueless
Currently one log every 15 seconds is enough to run an engine constantly.
I think that two wind mills and a furnace is too little for end-game stress.
I agree that furnaces should be reduced, but only by a factor 8, and we should add higher tear furnaces.
Edit: learning how stress works.
