Forgero - [Fabric]

Forgero - [Fabric]

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Progression overhaul (and new stations)

Steveplays28 opened this issue ยท 8 comments

commented

TODO: Write down when advancements should trigger (related to #267)

Assembly station overhaul

The assembly station is currently too expensive to get very early in the game, due to it requiring deepslate and a schematic, which requires paper.

Makeshift assembly station

A more early game friendly alternative to the assembly station is required that costs a lot less and only works on wooden and stone parts.

Assembly station

The midgame assembly station's recipe will also need to be rebalanced, I think it could use being a bit more expensive and requiring iron or something, to properly add in progression.

An anvil could possibly turn it into a multiblock structure that can also repair the tools as well as create them in a single UI.
Possibly by making the anvil repair window appear below the existing window.
Maybe it should only take in tools as well, and disallow repairing tools with a normal anvil that is not part of a multiblock structure.

New part crafting stations

Supposed to be replacements to using the crafting table.
Possibly opt-in as Sigmund suggested.

Woodworking station

Allows you to create tool parts from wood, and if a masonry station is placed next to it it turns into a multiblock (masonry station) that can be used to craft both wooden and stone tool parts.
The UI should have a single input and a single output, with a scrollable button determining which schematic is used.
Only basic schematics can be used in this station, and you do not need to make them.

Forging station

This station is used to craft metal tool parts.
The UI should have a single input and a single output, with a scrollable button determining which schematic is used (selecting from schematics in your inventory, and in the future possibly a schematic chest attached to the forging station).
All schematics can be used in this station.

commented

I think we also need to rethink the assembly station as a whole. It tries to do two things, combine assembly and disassembly, which has lead to loads of bugs, and general confusion. I think it's a good idea to introduce disassembly as a separate station. I like the idea of tiering the station, so that you start out with a wooden one, upgrade it to stone, then metals and soon, to be able to disassemble parts of a higher material tier. Hopefully that would lead to a natural progression that would be easy to tie into advancements

commented

Also like the idea of a the woodworking + masonry station, that's neat

commented

Glad to hear you like the ideas! I agree, though I think the disassembly issue can be fixed with better UI/UX. We'll have to experiment though!

commented

Edit: this idea assumes that the parts are always made only from different materials and the schematics are used to combine these parts instead of crafting parts with schematics and then just combining these parts w/o a schematic

Progression idea:
have a "primary" workbench that in the endgame can do everything: upgrading, swapping components, assembly, disassembly. UI will give a nice feeling for it. Proposal for UI: have a slot for a schematic. Once a schematic is placed, the UI updates to show custom item slots based on that schematic for all parts that can be combined using the given schematic.
For the intermediate progression steps, just restrict the capabilities.

  • Restrict the materials that can be used for crafting to the "hardest" material that was used in crafting the workbench. (so if it's made from wood and stone, can't use it for iron or diamond and so on)
  • have the workbench quality restrict how many parts can be combined. Good schematic has for example 5 slots, but in a bad bench you can only provide handle and head. In a better bench you can also include a binding and for even higher benches, all slots will be unlocked.
  • just placing a tool allows for swapping out individual parts of the tool. All parts that aren't accessible through this bench (due to poor quality) cannot be taken out and thus would be lost.

All this will also help new users getting their head around all the mechanics. The start is quite basic where the only new thing is to combine a head and a handle (instead of multiple materials in a shapeful recipe in vanilla). And then once that is "mastered" a new slot, component whatsoever is unlocked introducing a new relation/way to influence the stats or behavior.

commented

Rethinking the progression strategy

Note: I think this could work well in addition to newer stations mentioned above.

Problem

Forgero does not take the natural progression of the game into account. The gameplay is scattered at different places with no real goals in mind, except making it possible to craft and upgrade custom tools.

Strategy

Create an overview of the goals a player is trying to achieve at different points in the game, and see how Forgero's strengths can be used to help the player progress to new goals.

Forgero's strengths

Combine anything, use everything
Forgero makes it possible to attach attributes and gameplay features to items. It also provides custom tools/parts that can be upgraded and modified with parts and items.

Goals?

The gameplay loop in vanilla Minecraft is based on crafting items that can be used to solve a problem. These problems might be small. "I need a stone pickaxe to mine iron.", and they might be big: "I need really good weapons to beat the wither." They can also take a long time: "I need to find another cow so I have a solid food supply."

The purpose of defining clear gameplay goals is to identify areas where Forgero's unique ability to combine tools and materials can provide a satisfactory way to solve a problem.

Example situations from the first day in a new survival world

By combining a goal with a time frame, it is easier to find unique situations where Forgero could have been used to enhance the progression of a player. The first day is pretty simple, find everything you need to survive the first night.

Wood -> Stone pickaxe

The wooden pickaxe is pretty useless, you discard it after having mined three stone blocks. It is usually left in the inventory or thrown away so it does not consume space. By surrounding a wooden pickaxe with three stones, it could be turned into the stone variant of a tool, without the use of a crafting table. The pickaxe is then upgraded to the next tier without having to craft a separate pickaxe and use more sticks. This is faster and less resource intensive than doing it the vanilla way

Wooden tools + coal

Upgrading a wooden tool with coal can set it on fire. The tool slowly burns away, but can be a powerful weapon against enemies, as it will set them on fire.

Right clicking a bee will make your tools poisonous

Bees are poisonous, and interacting with them can make your tool inflict more damage to enemies for a given number of hits

A single iron ore can be used to upgrade the tip of a stone pickaxe

Upgrading your stone pickaxe with a single iron ore will increase the durability, speed and mining level, without taking too many materials. This would be a less resource intensive way of improving your tool if materials are limited.

An iron tool should create fire when interacting with flint

Instead of crafting a flint and steel, simply put the flint in the off-hand and an iron tool in the right hand, then right click.

Upgrading with snowballs

Packing snowballs on your tools can provide freezing effects on mobs.

A pokey stick with knockback but little damage

Combining to sticks could create a cane, which can have slight pushback in case you encounter mobs and only have sticks lying around.

There are of course many other good ideas, and I would love to hear them!

Identifying new features new features like these

I knew I wanted to find early game scenarios where Forgero could be useful, so I made my goal to start a new save, and do what I needed to be set up for the first night. Every time I encountered a new situation, I paused and looked around to see if there was something in the world or inventory that could help me overcome it by thinking about how Forgero could have been used to craft something interesting or upgrade my tools. These could be things like encountering ore, which I need to be able to mine, a hill that needs to be climped, lakes I need to cross, or monsters appearing from caves. The goal here is not to force players into using Forgero to solve their problems, but to make the player feel smart for discovering a new/better way to solve their problem using Forgero.

Next steps!

It's not possible to implement everything. There is no time. There are also plenty of solutions that would be better served as being a separate mod, but first we need to identify the possible new features. I think trying to split the gameplay progression of a complete vanilla game into separate steps can help us see where Forgero could be used to provide new paths for reaching the next level.

Here are some examples, but I would ideally like to create some sort of map of the entire Minecraft experience to see where we could fill in possible gameplay gaps. These are only ideas to get the mind going, there are not planned features. For the most part I need to sit down and play more to get a better understanding of the different steps you are going through and which new features can improve upon the vanilla experience without feeling like cheating.

First cave exploration

  • Make it possible to upgrade tools in place using new materials so the player does not have to resurface
  • Different weapons are better suited against different enemies. Maces deal more damage to skeleton like mobs
  • Using the flint and iron weapon can set fire to enemies
  • Wrapping your handle with leather can give a slightly higher ore drop chance.
  • Creating a makeshift bow can make it possible to use the arrows dropped from skeletons
  • Using gunpowder from creepers creates a small explosion
  • Looting cave chests can give unique upgrades that can be used on your current tools/weapons
  • Shoes made of wool decreases detection range of mobs
  • Redstone on weapons/arrows will trigger a creeper explosion no matter how far away
  • Sabers can instamine cobweb

Finding food sources

  • Knives can be crafted to increase the amount of meat dropped from animals
  • Maybe there is an accessible upgrade to increase the drop chance of seeds from grass during the early game

There are plenty other gameplay scenarios we can focus on, and I think we should try to categorise them as best as possible so we have a good understanding of which part of the game we are trying to improve. Some more examples are: Exploring the nether for the first time, Beating the ender dragon, finding your first village, beating a village raid, building a proper base, exploring new biomes and more.

commented

I did CTRL + F did not find smithing I am disappointed :kekw:

commented

I did CTRL + F did not find smithing I am dissapointed :kekw:

I'm just waiting for you to insert the perfect case for it

commented

I'd love to have a fling back armor which you get by dipping your armor into slime (manually with slime ball/block, or by being attacked by a slime). Only negative side effect, it increases the duration for which you burn and once the time is over, the slime coating is burnt away. The slime coating also is washed away when entering water.
Oh, the positive effect is a certain chance/or guaranteed to reflect projectiles back to their sender and redirect melee attacks to other surrounding creatures

Edit: could help with achieving the "return to sender" advancement plus easening the early game fights if you're lucky to find slime