Minecraft Version

1.20.1

Forge Version

47.41

Mantle Version

1.11.79

Tinkers' Construct Version

3.10.2.92

Problem description

I'm creating this GitHub issue following a conversation with KnightMiner in the Tinkers' Discord about ideas for Tinkers compatibility with the Create mod. This initial post will be edited later as I have the time to get more information, but there will be a decent amount of stuff here to start with.

As a brief list of points I've noticed where inter-mod compatibility could be improved:

1. Crushed ore melting in Tinkers' multiblocks. Probably the most featured request, and something many modpacks/datapacks/mods have added on their own.
2. Blazing Blood as a Blaze Burner super-heating fuel.
3. Requiring Brass to be alloyed in a super-heated smeltery if Create is installed for Create's progression (suggested by KnightMiner).
4. Moveable Budding Slime Crystals with Create.

Crushed Raw Ore Melting
Create Wiki for Crushed Ores
This one is probably the most significant change, but also the most requested. First, a bit of context is required. Like Tinkers Construct, Create adds a way to get extra materials via extra processing, and a way to get byproducts through extra processing.

It's important to note before heading in that encased fans (necessary for washing) are very easy to get early game, but crushing wheels (needed for crushed ores) requires Nether access and a decently sophisticated Create workshop.

In Tinkers Construct, if you want more iron you put iron in a smeltery or a melter, and you get 1 ingot and 3 nuggets for every raw ore. In Create, you using crushing wheels to process the ores, for a chance at getting double the ore. See the below screenshots for examples as to how this works. NOTE: While I only include iron in the screenshots, all materials follow the same standard pattern.

Deepslate ore produces a guaranteed 2 crushed raw ore, a 25% chance for a 3rd raw ore, a 75% chance for a nugget of experience, and a 12% chance for cobbled deepslate.

Crushing regular stone ore produces a guaranteed 1 crushed raw ore, a 75% chance for a 2nd raw ore, a 75% chance for a nugget of experience, and a 12% chance for cobblestone.

NOTE: Crushing regular raw ore ONLY provides a guaranteed 1 crushed raw ore and a 75% chance of a nugget of experience.

For smelting, crushed raw ore is treated the same as regular raw ore. I.e: smelting crushed raw ore only gives 1 ingot. If you were to allow crushed raw ores to be melted, it would basically be like giving people more raw ore to smelt (assuming they utilize crushing wheels). It is important to note that the only way to get more crushed ore out of a single block is to silk touch the ore block and crush it, as raw ore doesn't give extra crushed ore.

Also similar to Tinkers is the fact that Create allows for getting byproducts. However, while the Tinkers foundry only allows for mineral (generally metal) byproducts, Create byproducts are rather varied. The following screenshots show the washing byproducts of the 4 crushed ores added by base game Create (Iron, Gold, Copper, and Zinc):

Crushed raw iron gives a guaranteed 9 iron nuggets, and a 75% chance for 1 redstone dust.

Crushed raw gold gives a guaranteed 9 gold nuggets, and a 50% chance for 1 nether quartz.

Crushed raw copper gives a guaranteed 9 copper nuggets, and a 50% chance for 1 clay ball.

Crushed raw zinc gives a guaranteed 9 zinc nuggets, and a 25% chance for 1 gunpowder.

NOTE: Create also adds crushed variants of some ores, if it detects that another mod adds them. I will have to do some more research on what ores Create will add under these circumstances, and what their washing byproducts are.

As you can tell, none of these byproducts are the same as their byproducts in a Tinkers foundry. Strictly speaking, there is no impact on progression here. In most cases, byproducts from a foundry would generally be more valuable than washing byproducts, but there's obviously nothing stopping players from using both if they so choose.

Blazing Blood
If Tinkers is installed alongside Create, Blazing Blood is added as a fuel input for Blaze Burners using the following recipe:

NOTE: This screenshot was taken using Create: Crafts and Additions (otherwise the fuel stats are invisible) but the recipe exists in Create regardless of whether or not Crafts and Additions is present. I tested this myself.

As you can see, Blazing Blood gives 5 minutes of regular heat for a Blaze Burner. Frankly, this is pathetic, and actually significantly worse than using lava instead:

NOTE: Lava gives the same heat level as Blazing Blood, but actually lasts for over 3 times as long, making it a significantly better source of fuel for Blaze Burners!

Create Brass Progression
Brass plays a key role in Create's progression. Brass is used in virtually every advanced Create component, and is required to make Crushing wheels, among other things. Normally, Brass is made using the following recipe in Create:

The mixer and basin in the above image are relatively easy to make, being about as expensive as the encased fans mentioned earlier. They can both be made without access to the Nether. HOWEVER, the blaze burner (required to "heat" the basin) is only accessible through the Nether. Specifically, an empty blaze burner requires 1 netherrack (and 4 iron sheets), which then must be used to "catch" a blaze in order to fill it for use. In base Create ONLY a heated blaze burner can be used to heat up a basin; lava or other similarly hot materials DO NOT WORK ON THEIR OWN. In order to fuel the filled blaze burner, basically any furnace fuel can be used and generally lava is the go-to.

In Tinkers Construct, Brass can be alloyed in a regular smeltery using copper and zinc, without the need for Blazing Blood. This means that Create progression requires Nether access for Brass, while Tinkers allows for Brass to be made in the Overworld without Nether access, and generally very early on at that.

Moveable Budding Slime Crystals With Create
Create, being the mod that it is, allows for a lot of blocks to be moved using its various machinery (mechanical pistons, pulleys, bearings, etc.). By default, some blocks are restricted by their movement type (such as spawners and budding amethyst) although this is configurable (Create Gameplay Settings>Kinetics>Contraptions>Amethyst Movement).

From the Create Wiki.

The config has three settings, shown above:

1. MOVABLE- Can be freely moved by all Create contraptions, including being pushed/pulled/rotated by pistons/pulleys/bearings. Can ALSO be picked up into the player inventory using Create's cart assemblers and a wrench.
2. NOPICKUP- The same as MOVABLE, except they CANNOT be picked up via cart assemblers. THIS IS THE DEFAULT SETTING.
3. UNMOVABLE- CANNOT be moved in ANY way using ANY Create mechanics.

This is clearly intended to follow Minecraft's gamebalance around budding amethyst, wherein the blocks are difficult to work around and generally require the player to relocate themselves to the block, rather than the other way around. However, Create does allow for moving budding amethyst but it requires you to have a rail network between the source of the amethyst and wherever you want it to go, either using trains or minecarts.

Tinkers obviously adds its own 4 budding slime crystal blocks, which follow similar balancing and design philosophy to Vanilla budding amethyst. The exception is that slime crystals are significantly more useful.

The issue is that this config setting in Create does not seem to effect modded budding crystal blocks in any way. Regardless of the setting for the Amethyst Movement config, modded budding crystals will behave as if they are set to MOVABLE in the config file, meaning that Tinkers Construct budding slime crystals can be picked up and freely relocated with minimal tech investment.

I have also noticed this same issue with Applied Energetics 2's budding certus quartz, which is even more problematic than here, as AE2 certus is invaluable to its progression, and AE2 already provides its own method of moving them via spatial storage. I say that to say that this is probably something that needs to be fixed on Create's end, maybe using a tag like create:is_budding (or just use the already extant forge:budding tag) and all blocks with that tag are controlled by the Amethyst Movement config (renamed "Budding Movement"?) so that any mod which has budding blocks will follow consistent behavior.

Suggested solution

Crushed Raw Ore Melting
Personally, I don't see any issue with allowing for people to smelt crushed raw ores from Create using Tinkers multiblocks. You already can't get ore duping in Create without silk touching the ore blocks, and I don't believe the numbers even compare with a fortune pick (or lucky pick from Tinkers). Unless people install mods/etc. to alter it, raw ore does not give extra crushed ore when put through crushing wheels.

Washing ores also doesn't change anything, as the byproducts added by Create are completely different from those added by Tinkers. Frankly, the byproducts from Create are worse than those from Tinkers, and several of the Create byproducts can be more efficiently farmed using Vanilla methods, such as a Creeper Farm, or a Witch/Raid Farm.

For most cases, allowing people to smelt crushed ore means they will be able to squeeze out a little bit of xp from their raw ore before smelting it. Some people, such as myself, have altered the recipe to allow for slight ore duping with raw ores (in my case, crushing raw ore gives a 25% chance of a 2nd crushed raw ore and removes the xp). However, these changes are not base Create. Base Create ONLY allows ore duping with crushing wheels if you silk touch ores.

You could also add Crushed Raw Cobalt if Create is installed I suppose. If so, the recipes would be (according to Create balancing):
Cobalt Ore (Block) > 1 Crushed Raw Cobalt, 75% chance for a 2nd Crushed Raw Cobalt, 75% chance for a nugget of experience, and a 12% chance for netherrack.
Raw Cobalt (Item) > 1 Crushed Raw Cobalt, and a 75% chance for a nugget of experience.

Don't really know what the practical use of that would be, but it's there.

Blazing Blood
I think it is pretty clear that Blazing Blood should be boosted as a Create blaze burner fuel. It certainly needs to be made a valid super-heating fuel, and the duration should probably be extended past 5 minutes. I don't have any suggestions for how long the duration should be, so I would suggest talking to the Create devs about it.

For a bit of added context, the only method of super-heating blaze burners in base Create is by using blaze cakes, which requires 1 egg, 1 sugar, and 1 cinder flour (crushed via crushing wheels, with a 50% chance for a 2nd cinder flour per netherrack) to create a blaze cake base using a basin and a mechanical press. The blaze cake base then needs to be given 250mB of lava via a spout. The only non-farmable resource for this recipe in base Create is the cinder flour, though obviously that is easy to acquire.

Blaze cakes super-heat a blaze burner for 160 seconds.

Create Brass Progression
I don't have anything specific to say here, so I'll just repost what KnightMiner discussed in the Discord for convenience sake:

Either locking brass behind blazing blood (on the condition that Create is installed) or re-classifying Create's brass as "Blazing Brass" or something like that is a good idea in my opinion.

The only downsides I can see is that:

1. By locking brass behind blazing blood when Create is installed, you have to consider the balancing effect that would have on Plated Slimewood. It would then be harder to acquire without any stat changes.
2. Renaming Create's brass to "Blazing Brass" would be difficult if not impossible on Tinkers' end, and would also have compatibility issues for Create addons that add brass items (which is a lot of them). I don't imagine the Create team really wants to rename their brass either. You would also need to come up with a new stat set for this "Blazing Brass" if you are to put it in Tinkers as a material, alongside regular brass. There's also the weird issue of having 2 recipes that are identical in Tinkers, except the heat level is different. I can see that causing issues and a lot of confusion.

I think making brass require blazing blood when Create is installed is the best solution, however you would need to rebalance Plated Slimewood accordingly whenever Create is installed.

Moveable Budding Slime Crystals With Create
Honestly I doubt this is something that can be fixed on Tinkers' end. This seems like something that must be done on Create's end, but I think it's probably one of the more important parts of compatibility between Create and Tinkers, since it makes it ridiculously easy to acquire Tinkers' slime crystals (not to mention how it breaks other mods like AE2 as well).

Maybe there is something that can be done on Tinker's end, but the best option is probably going to be to work with the Create devs on a solution.

I've tried to fix this on my personal modpack, but I don't really even know what methods Create uses to control Amethyst movement. It's not any tag that I know of at the very least, and it certainly isn't applied to all forge:budding items, since Tinkers and AE2 both make use of that tag.

Alternatives considered

N/A

Additional context

All of the screenshots and data used in this post were gathered using the following mods on a brand new CurseForge profile:

As previously mentioned, Create: Crafts and Additions was used ONLY to provide the above screenshots for fuel stats, and the data was verified to be identical without the mod installed.

Searched for existing enhancement?

Used the search bar, Checked the FAQ, Checked the in game books

Please let me know if there is any other information (aside for what other Crushed Raw Ores Create can add) that you want me to collect. I'll try to update this periodically for more information.

In my modpack, I added quartz to the brass recipe to gate it. Still requires the nether, but doesn't require blazing blood.

blaze cannibalism :o

If brass needs blazing blood as fuel to alloy, I think it is equal to use superheating to make brass in Create because blazing blood should be used as superheating fuel.
I advise to add blazing blood in the alloy recipe of brass, but blazing blood is not consumed.

Brass does not need superheating, only regular heating. This means you need to visit a nether fortress, but that's all