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Feature Request

Hello, like this doesn’t seem like a game error, but still.
I’ve noticed that the current AoE rotation for Balance Druid tends to spend too much time applying Moonfire and Sunfire when fighting large packs (e.g., 10+ targets). This results in a situation where, by the time all targets are dotted, the pack is already significantly damaged or nearly dead in high-speed Mythic+ runs.

Would it be possible to optimize the AoE logic so that:

1. Only a few priority targets (e.g., 3) are dotted first, to quickly enter Eclipse, and then return to dotting additional targets over time rather than frontloading all GCDs into DoTs?

2. Ensure that Moonfire and Sunfire do not expire on active targets by refreshing them at a reasonable threshold rather than reapplying them too early or too late.

3. Maintain a better balance between dotting and casting Starfire, so that the Druid contributes meaningful AoE damage sooner instead of just spreading DoTs.

This could improve the flow of the rotation, making it more efficient in fast-paced dungeons without sacrificing DoT uptime.

Thanks for your time and for the great work on this addon!

Mark

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You can turn target swaps off and just dot yourself, but technically this is what sims would do as well.

I could implement a dot cap setting, but I would need hard numbers / evidence from the Boomkin guides / APL writers on what that number should be.

From my experience, when you play dotters like boomie you are the only one knowing how the class works and in which situation you are. This means that it's up to your expertise to minmax dot usage by using moonfire/treants and then sunfire when they're stacked. Boomie in general is not good in low keys so you are better off other druid specs if you have issues like the one you are mentioning. Basically 2 possibilities are

1. key too low for boomie
2. play your dots better

The addon is not perfect with boomie but definitely in a good spot

Hey,
Thanks for considering this! Based on multiple sources, including https://youtu.be/oPlCDiVMT6U?si=-CwER_YstNE-xqw6 and written recommendation from Icy, the optimal approach for AOE dotting as Balance Druid follows these priorities:

1. Moonfire: Should be applied to all visible enemies if they will live for at least 6 seconds (target.time_to_die > 6).

2. Sunfire: Should only be applied if the enemies are stacked closely together, and if they will live for at least 5 seconds (target.time_to_die > 5). The more targets there are, the less strict this requirement becomes.

A possible way to refine Sunfire usage would be to only consider enemies within 5-10 yards of the primary target to prevent unnecessary GCD usage on spread-out enemies. This could be handled using for example with enemies_in_range(5 yards) –filtering only closely packed targets.
Or something like stacked_targets(5 yards) – a potential new variable to ensure efficient Sunfire usage.

This logic aligns with how Balance Druid maximizes AOE efficiency:
• Moonfire all viable targets
• Sunfire only when enemies are properly stacked

Would this be feasible to implement?

While it sounds good, I'm not aware of any way to detect distance between 2 enemy units. 6 seconds is also a pretty short window, if something won't last 6 seconds you're probably better off disabling target swaps and just hitting your main target.

Yes you are right.
But since distance-based detection is not an option, is the way? to refine the AOE rotation using:

1. conditional cast – instead of detecting stacked mobs, we could use enemies_in_range>3 to ensure Sunfire is only used when it will hit enough targets?
2. prioritize dotting only 3 initial targets before entering Eclipse, then continue dotting as a secondary priority?
3. faster Eclipse entry – move into Eclipse earlier instead of fully dotting everything first?
4. star fall prioritization – ensure Starfall gets cast when enough Astral Power is available instead of excessive dotting?

1. conditional cast – instead of detecting stacked mobs, we could use enemies_in_range>3 to ensure Sunfire is only used when it will hit enough targets?

That's the same thing. We cannot detect that (that I am aware of).

2. prioritize dotting only 3 initial targets before entering Eclipse, then continue dotting as a secondary priority?

What is the math / evidence for this being the number? The video you linked, the sims, and the guides all indicate you should pretty much hit everything. And the AoE APL as it stands already already has a condition for the 6 second TTD. Even in 10 targets .. if it's not worth casting 5 moonfires to dot the entire pack because they'll die too fast, then it probably isn't worth using any cooldowns or astral power either. A lot of this would be solved by turning target swaps off or maybe trying a different build for the level of content, geared towards instant burst damage.

3. faster Eclipse entry – move into Eclipse earlier instead of fully dotting everything first?

Again, after how many? What's the math on the correct number?

4. star fall prioritization – ensure Starfall gets cast when enough Astral Power is available instead of excessive dotting?

Starfall is already a higher priority than dotting.

As I said, I could implement a dot cap setting, but I need information on what the limits should be.

Hey, thanks for clarifying!

You’re right—without a way to detect mob distances, we can’t reliably implement conditional Sunfire casts based on stacking. Understood.

Regarding the “dot cap” idea—since you requested concrete numbers, I’ll do some additional research (or sims) to determine the optimal number of targets worth dotting before prioritizing Eclipse entry and other spells.

I’ll get back to you once I’ve got some solid evidence or simulations to back it up.

Thanks for the detailed reply!

Hi,

After reviewing more materials, especially YouTube videos, there seems to be a general agreement that Moonfire should be applied as much as possible, while Sunfire should only be used once the mobs are properly grouped.

I’d suggest the following approach: If Sunfire hasn’t been applied anywhere yet, cast it on up to two mobs. Then apply Moonfire on all visible targets, but initially limit it to five. After that, enter Eclipse and use major cooldowns. Once the burst phase is done, Moonfire can be applied freely without any restrictions.

Would it be possible to make this adjustment in the code just for me so I can test it in M+? Thanks!

Your recommended changes aren't really able to be implemented in a sane way that won't make it more confusing to debug other snapshots.

I do think the logic behind target cycling could be improved for Moonfire and Sunfire. In some specializations, we allow for setting a target cap for multi-dotting on a spell-by-spell basis. @syrifgit, what do you think about that approach?

Your recommended changes aren't really able to be implemented in a sane way that won't make it more confusing to debug other snapshots.

I do think the logic behind target cycling could be improved for Moonfire and Sunfire. In some specializations, we allow for setting a target cap for multi-dotting on a spell-by-spell basis. @syrifgit, what do you think about that approach?

I was thinking either a spec setting similar to my sin rogue garrote cap setting, or just straight up adding a slider for cycle cap in the ability settings plugin, same spot where you'd change keybind, min/max targets, etc. One would be specific to boomkin / moonfire, the other of course being global across all specs and would need appropriate snapshot debug logs.

Thanks for the explanation, that clears things up. If there’s a possibility to set a separate cycle cap for Moonfire (and also for Sunfire individually? wow), I think that would really help.
Having independent caps for each spell would give us a lot more flexibility without overcomplicating things. Definitely appreciate you looking into this.