Biomancy

Biomancy

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Energy problem in chewer/digester cycle.

arsserpentarium opened this issue ยท 13 comments

commented

Please complete the following information:

  • Forge-Version: [e.g. 36.1.0]
  • Mod-Version: [e.g. 1.0.0]

Describe the bug
I've tryed to perform closed loop chewer/digester with good quality biomass(honey bottles). I used Create mod machines to supply set of digesters with water, take nutrient paste and digestate from them and supply it to chewer. Digestate was supplied to composter.
After consumption of 137 honey bottles, I discovered, that my construction has consumed 41 nutrient paste from system. And produced 104 bone meal. It means, that if we chew good quality food and digest it, we are producing only shit and slowly stopping. Which is illogical and inconvenient.

Expected behavior
I should had got big amount of nutrient paste.

Additional context
I haven't tryed it with other food qualities. I'll add info when I'll try.

commented

hmm, there might be something wrong on my spreadsheet. Chewing honey bottles should cost 5.5 nutrient paste and produce 6 crushed biomass which is worth 6 nutrient paste, so you should gain 0.5 nutrient paste. (i.e. you should gain biofuel in the chewer since we don't have fractional items)

Biofuel Loop

I think I'm ditching the percent display of the biofuel and just show the actual value.

commented

I'll try to rebuild my machine and reproduce. Maybe, I did something wrong.

commented

I'll try to rebuild my machine and reproduce. Maybe, I did something wrong.

There might be a bug in how I handle refueling when the biofuel capacity of a machine is almost full. Haven't had time to test it yet. I did balance the biofuel production on paper without testing it, so the balance might be also to harsh anyways and the overall fuel gain too tiny to notice.

commented

What if chewer would be a little more greedy? so it will chew as much, as output of 64 biomass does allow.So, it will be a lot cheaper to feed it with large amounts of food. Or what if chewer will need a lot less nutrients? it's fairly slow machine after all, so we'll need chewer arrays for any decent farm.
Anyway, you've calculated nutrient paste gain from cycle. But isn't it logical, if we would get more biomass from chewed food than if we would digest raw biomass? So, possibly, cycle gains should be calculated as 20% or 30% profit respectively to digester without chewer.
Also, looks like, item elevator in my factory wasn't lossless. I've rebuilded it and now I'm testing it.

commented

update:
For 512 units of every type of food I got:
poor food:
===Only digester set: 512 nutrients+9 bone meal
===Chewer+digester set: 0 nutrients+107 bone meal(so, it works like composter.Slowly, yet more effectively)
avg food:
===Only digester set:1024 nutrients+14 bone meal
===Chewer+digester set: 100 nutrients+217 bone meal
good food:
===Only digester set: 1536 nutrients+28 bone meal
===Chewer+digester set: 280 nutrients+331 bone meal
supb food:
===Only digester set: 2048 nutrients+33 bone meal
===Chewer+digester set: 1012 nutrients+429 bone meal

So, basically, chewer+digester works mostly as slow and a bit more efficient composter. which isn't cool. I suggest to increase nutrient gain from chewed biomass. Other possible solution is to increase gain of chewed biomass, but reduce compost gain from digestate.I prefere first option.

commented

I found a biofuel "leak" that makes it look like that you don't gain anything.
Turns out I forgot to check that the machines have enough fuel before they start crafting. This meant that they start crafting, as soon as they have any fuel and just fail if not enough is present. lol

commented

I know it. So I made stock of nutrient paste in my contraption.
Anyway, chewing now is making entire system to be somewhat more efficient and slow composter and can't be used as nutrient paste source.

commented

there is a new balance attempt, question is if its enough or still too expensive #29

commented

NP-nutrient paste. BM-bone meal.In each tests were 512 units of each kind of food.
poor biomass: digester: 512 NP, 9 BM. Chewer+digester: 328 NP 71 BM
avg biomass: digester:1024NP, 15 BM. Chewer+digester: 1144 NP+237 BM
good biomass: digester:1536 NP,26 BM. Chewer+digester: 1656NP+318 BM
superb biomass:digester:1896 NP,32 BM. Chewer+digester: 2048 NP, 398 BM
That's better. However, now we basically have same amounts. But with more bonemeal.In my opinion, chewer+digester setup must give approximately 15-20% profit.Probably, depending on quality of BM, but not neccesary. To justify construction of relatively expensive and very slow system.However, now it has fairly good bonemeal profit.So, in some cases it worth it. For example, if there already would be fabricator, such system could provide both nutrients to make meat and bonemeal. Also, it would be desireable, if we just want to pimp up composter. However, in that case, nutrient paste should be compostable too.which is logical.
Anyway, now it isn't blatantly broken.

commented

updated

commented

Made a datapack to allow faster balance testing. You can stick this into your datapacks folder of your world save. And load it in-game with the /datapack command
biomancy_biofuel_datapack_v1.zip

main changes:

  • crushed biomass produces now 2 nutrient paste
  • tweaked production time of crushed biomass

image

commented

I'll try it. can you hand me xls sheet above?
I had idea to make all food produce chewed biomass proportionally to food nutrition value. But I'm not sure if it worth bother.

commented

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1C1_25y8NTYjAVB7ggX9X9jzchOaEFAZcxvOjPX5K_2s/edit?usp=sharing

I had idea to make all food produce chewed biomass proportionally to food nutrition value. But I'm not sure if it worth bother.

This is just harder to balance, you would have to create a recipe for each food specifically or I have to add specific code to handle all food. I don't think its worth doing it atm, things will change and who knows how many machines there will be that even use biofuel.

Also doing it with these few tags is simpler and easier to maintain.