From Bunyan: Add bark harvesting and crafting
ScottKillen opened this issue · 20 comments
Commentary welcome.
Uses?
Looking for suggestions on uses, harvesting process, recipes, value to the game, game balance, etc.
Easiest harvest---right-click axe? OR have to have Bunyan axe---be a use for that w/o it being OP.
Craft three vertically for a 'rope'=a ladder that doesn't need to be against a wall.
@harley9699 Ropes are planned as a part of KillenCraft/Bunyan#30. Bunyan's axe ( KillenCraft/Bunyan#31) involvement sounds good.
One issue...due to a Minecraft render bug, the number of textures required for rotating logs is fairly large...I really don't want to have to implement rotating barkless logs as well. Any suggestions?
New sprite (they can all look the same bark). It's just bark pieces. :) (don't know about the ID block though)
So, stripping the bark would drop the bark item, but the logs would still have the same texture?
Yes. Then make the bark pcs into rope or ___________ .
Do different kinds of bark make a difference?
Nah, too much extra work. UNLESS you're planning them for decoration, then people will whine ;)
lol...decorative bark...
Then, if you got a pelt from a wolf......(you know, to go with your 'bark') :)
ROFL...a complete set... LOL...;)
That would be interesting, if you could use bark like paintings so you could re-decorate a single side of a log (say the outside of your house) without having to make the inside look different. As for the harvesting, I would suggest when you use whatever special harvesting tool you use, it drops a bark and 2 or 4 planks of that treetype, so that you don't have to deal with barkless logs.
Or, make bark into a form of fuel. You can harvest a log to give 2 bark and nothing else dropped, and the bark has a value of 4 or 6 full smelting, to a coal's 8.
Or turn it into a food? A weak food at best, something like heals 1.0 or 2.0 saturation (the invisible food bar) but no actual food, so you can eat it to keep from starving, but NOT to increase your hunger. Makes it into an easy-to-obtain early-game foodsource without late-game use except in exploring. Because you don't usually notice you're hungry until you've lost at least half a bar unless you stare at the food bar and watch for the shaking, so if it healed no visible bars, but healed the invisible food bars, it would keep you able to run/from starving/etc, while not helping you in the department of re-gaining your hearts back.
Or wait until 3.0 of EBXL and overwrite whatever code in EBXL will control the tool used to harvest the clay from clay-rich soil (if that gets implemented), and make it so using bark is the only way to obtain this tool, and have a lifespan like any other tool, so in order to harvest the clay/whatever you determine to do to change the vanilla uses of dirt, you need bark (if you have bunyan installed), and make it useful that way, so you have to harvest bark in order to harvest the clay/whatever else you use Galvani dirt for. Perhaps code a check into EBXL, If bunyan is installed, yada yada yada NEEDSBARK, if not, use default vanilla materials for tools.
I'll come back to this when it's not 12:30 at night, and think some more on it.
So ideas for bark:
- Alternate source of paper.
- Fuel for furnaces (several pieces => one smelt.)
- Decorations.
@blargh555
I second the idea of edible bark (saturation bar only).
I think i like the idea of bark you coulduse it to mabey in thin strips surround a painting or use it to make different coloured walls on either side
I think the bark stripper should one spit out the bark and also spit out a shaved log so you can use it for decorating the bark could be re applied to the log so you can make a multi coloured log, the 2x2 bark might be cool too and be placed like a painting
Anything that adds to the saturation bar without adding to hunger is too powerful.
The basic rule of minecraft hunger, simplified: Your food level ranges from 0 to 40. If it is under 18, you will not heal; if it is over 20, you cannot eat. Combat will consume food quickly, so you want to keep it as high as possible, and are limited by the "won't heal here" and "can't eat there" -- very tiny -- range.
As soon as you can add to saturation without limit, you are basically saying "Food will always be 40 after you're done eating" -- too powerful.
For removal how about a bark stripper or chipper. Feed the log thru once to remove the bark and feed it thru a second time to turn the bark or log into mulch. Mulch being a block that could be placed like gravel or soil. It would be cool if the bark was different colors depending on the type of wood. Then the resulting bark and/or mulch would be a color to match it and could be used for making paths/roads or decoration. Bark could be used to make simple containers such as bowls or cups....or even a boat or pail. Maybe combined with rubber/resin to make it water tight. Bark could also be used to make paper, string or rope maybe using another tool.
@keybounce, i read it as more food will always be at 20 + whatever after eating. If you have half a bar of visible food, then it'll be at 21, not 40....
That will only happen if you have half a bar visible and full saturation.
Here is the issue: Food that gives you lots of main food, and little saturation, is relatively cheap and bad food. Melons, apples, etc. These food items normally have the problem that you won't have a lot of food, and will go below the "healing" point quickly if you get into combat.
The idea of bark adding to saturation, for free, means that you could say "I have just dropped from 20 hunger to 19 (10 shanks to 9.5 shanks). I'll eat 20 saturation worth of bark, and then top it off with a melon. Then I'm absolutely full."
You cannot get to absolutely full that easily normally. Even steak/Pork chops don't do that.
i didn't even think of it in conjunction with other food you're right.
Hmm...
How about "boiled bark" as a food? Bark plus water bucket => (crafting) "uncooked soaked bark" + empty bucket => (furnace) "Boiled bark".
Boiled bark would add to your food level, add zero to saturation, and give you food poisoning. You can eat it, to fill up, but you can't keep it all down, and are hungry after eating.
too complicated combared to just finding some grass and getting rid of it to make bread. I don't think it would be utilized
I don't think it would be used outside of "adventure" maps, actually. Imagine being stranded and having no food. Not even any tall grass ... until you find and kill a skeleton. Bark only until then.
Decoration: Good!
Alternate Paper Source: Good, as long as its inefficient when your just doing it "on the side" of aiming for wood. Convenience has a cost, and sugarcane is the ideal 'primary' source of paper.
Food: No comment.
Bark Stripper: Terrible idea, UNLESS you made an entire cleanly, efficiently-designed tech tree to use it: a tool for just one specific niche use at one level of the tech tree is bad design. An axe can do the job just fine here for Minecraft's purposes, maybe even shears. Aiming for realism is nice, but you can't sacrifice clean gameplay principles and overcomplicate things to be cute.
Bark Armor: Heavily in favor of a full set with equivalent stats of leather armor; a lot of players hate killing so many animals for a full set of leather armor when its so weak, but also hate spending precious iron on it as well. I'm part of that group of players that carries around a bunch of stone shovels/axes/picks/swords, and then just one diamond pick, to not waste anything valuable. If there was a stone armor, that would be great, but kind of silly. Bark is a more reasonable option here, and makes up for leather armor being poorly implemented.
Anywho, just don't make the mistake of making too irrelevant, unimportant, super-niche useless items to be more "realistic" in a Minecraft world. You can kind of forgive tech mods for their redundant processing because they're aiming for the immersion of exactly how complicated everything they've simplified is, but EBXL is a beautifully clean, aesthetically appealing mod with smart use of metadata. Don't forget what the mod was originally about!
I think getting to involved in mechanics makes it over complicated. Personally it makes more sense to use wood as a source for paper than sugar cane. The idea for the stripper is to not only strip the bark from the wood but turn wood into chips or mulch. The idea then would be to allow it for uses within other mods that use wood chips or mulch or pulp such as forestry and thermal expansion..both have many uses for those items.
Bark armor, while I am not against having it, I think will never be used. Leather armor is there...and with all the other ores (copper, bronze, etc.) and even if you only use vanilla ores...iron is so abundant I just don't see the need for it. I hate killing animals too...so we use a rancher that is set to not kill the animal. You could always choose to breed them so you don't run out...but you would still have to kill them. Also, one of the uses we have listed for paper is to make armor as it can be coated and impregnated with other things to make it very strong.
What is important or relevant to one person is not always the same for others. Different play styles change the game completely and what appeals to one person may not appeal to the next. Personally I never play with mobs on and hate the nether, so anything involving them is completely irrelevant to me...but I also understand that there are people that wouldn't play without them...so it is relevant to them.
I have no problems with EBXL adding tech or other items that change it from being just a biome generation mod so long as it is done well, and knowing the type of person Scott is I can't imagine him releasing anything that wasn't up to or beyond the current standards we have for EBXL. There are normally options to turn things off or on in the config...and even if you can't a person always has the choice as to whether or not they want to use that option or not. The server I play on has 88 mods installed currently. They are there because some of the other people on the server enjoy them. Just because they are there doesn't mean I have to use them and it doesn't interfere with my style of play.
I seriously wonder: Should the tech items -- things like paper armor, bark strippers, coolant generators, etc -- be in a different mod?
If a scarecrow is not going to be a part of the landscape, just something that you make, does it really belong in a landscape mod?
Feature creep. Split things up. A mail transfer agent is not a mail user agent -- and programs like sendmail or fetchmail deny ideas/requests/feature suggestions that are not relevant.
I like the idea of frozen landscape spreading. That's landscape/biomes.
But frozen redstone generating cooling power for diamond freezers ... that's a tech mod, not a landscape mod.
Good point, @keybounce
The real issue is that every added block needs to have some use (Scarecrows won't continue in the next version) We need to do what we do well...and each block should have a use of some kind...
But...every block having a use, does not automatically mean we need industry or machines.
While I agree to a point...I also don't consider armor a tech. Why is the scarecrow going away? I liked him and seems like several people did as there were always requests for the recipe. If it needs a use then it could always be given one, such as keeping animals out of your garden. It's very annoying to have my wheat farm messed up because the animals went trampling through it.
I would prefer to see everything in one mod, but with the ability to turn certain aspects of it off/on just how you can currently with the biomes. Wouldn't it be more of a pain mod wise to have multiple mods/add ons and keeping them all up to date and dealing with issues of each one?
For example, the ocean biome....has several things that would be considered "tech"...but quite honestly I can't imagine having the ocean biome without those things being a part of it. Like the ability to breathe under water in order to explore this new biome...or the ability to see underwater or swim faster. To me it doesn't make sense to have to download additional things to explore a biome that we add. I think this would be the case with several of the new biomes and terrain features we are considering.
Would like to see us implement some of this, like the lattice for example. Would also give a use to saplings for those that don't use tech mods that convert saplings into energy.
Going to have to agree with that. I do use a tech mod or two myself, but I try to keep the tech relatively low, and some general utilities and extras that do just a little, rather than a lot, are more than welcome. Also bears mention that a little redundancy is okay, when it's low-tech but inefficient recipes as a predecessor to endgame/midgame high-efficiency options.
There is a document on tree houses and paper use on the google drive. These things are being looked at as something to implement in a future release.
Yep...I suggested a bark stripper or mulcher earlier in this thread. If it was a stripper then a machine that you put logs into and you receive planks with no bark left on them and bark chips/strips. If it was a mulcher you'd put in the log or plank and get wood chips in return.
I'm not sure about armor...do you think people would really use armor made out of bark when there are other things almost as east to get that would be way stronger?
I like the maple syrup idea...although maple trees would have to be added. Trees++ adds them in a red and yellow version (although the colors are almost like day glo red and yellow :P) It would be a nice tree addition for this mod I think. Are you thinking tree tap like is used on the rubber trees....or something that you would attach to the tree and you would have a slow flowing liquid?
Since Bark is an extra resource I think there should definitely be a special tool or machine for removal. If you use an axe you may get some bark but it would mostly be wood chips/mulch. A tool to harvest the bark should shave it off in some fashion.
An alternate use for bark could be a low durability form of armor.
Additionally, you might consider maple trees that can be tapped. you'd have a tapper and bucket arrangement for collection. This could be used in a number of ways.
Yeah, I was just reflecting on your earlier post with my comment on the
bark stripper
Bark armor was used in more primitive cultures. I threw it out there since
it could provide some additional options to people who like to use
something different.
Maple syrup gathering is a slow process... so it would be most realistic if
the tap was placed on the side of a tree and "harvested" later.
On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 10:03 AM, Annysia [email protected] wrote:
Yep...I suggested a bark stripper or mulcher earlier in this thread. If it
was a stripper then a machine that you put logs into and you receive planks
with no bark left on them and bark chips/strips. If it was a mulcher you'd
put in the log or plank and get wood chips in return.I'm not sure about armor...do you think people would really use armor made
out of bark when there are other things almost as east to get that would be
way stronger?I like the maple syrup idea...although maple trees would have to be added.
Trees++ adds them in a red and yellow version (although the colors are
almost like day glo red and yellow :P) It would be a nice tree addition for
this mod I think. Are you thinking tree tap like is used on the rubber
trees....or something that you would attach to the tree and you would have
a slow flowing liquid?—
Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com//issues/105#issuecomment-9034959.
I can totally see people hooking up pipes and a pump to a tree ...or maybe from the bucket, since no one seems to like to wait on things anymore...lol.
Lets not go the route of "Terra Firma Craft". Not everyone wants that type of gameplay.
Since Bark is an extra resource I think there should definitely be a special tool or machine for removal. If you use an axe you may get some bark but it would mostly be wood chips/mulch. A tool to harvest the bark should shave it off in some fashion.
Going to wood chips/etc is a major tech slowdown. That's TFC.
Bark armor? Maybe as good as leather, only for chest and leggings? Was it actually used for helmets or boots?
Axe on wood log => wood log and bark pieces? 9 bark pieces => one bark armor piece (same idea as paper)
Can we adjust map generation and sapling growth so that the blocks placed are somehow tagged wood logs, such that you can axe a wood log for bark only once?
:P I actually tried TFC and like many parts of it and the work involved to get to things. But I don't get how using wood chips/mulch is a tech slow down....if we are using it for decorative things or maybe it could interface with forestry and be turned into a carpenter recipe for mulch which is needed to make bog earth and humus. Or if we wanted to make our own machine we could make our own version of mulch and humus that could then work with forestry.
I agree. If we have a similar named item, but use it in a much different way and develop the tech tree differently, how is that a bad thing? Or a change in gameplay?
I thought you said that using an axe would give you wood chips and mulch, instead of log blocks. Did I misunderstand?
If you try to use an axe to strip bark rather than the designated tool. An axe is too unweidy.
But if you didn't want them just dont do that...but those things might have uses.
No...my suggestion was to use some type of machine ....a bark stripper would remove the bark and give you planks and muchl/wood chips as products. The mulcher you would put the log in and it would grind the whole thing up into mulch or wood chips.
To me using an axe would make it to easy...if every time you chopped a tree would give you the bark or wood chips. I think it should either be a machine or some type of tool that only gives you bark...since i don't think a hand type tool could give you wood chips or mulch.