Nether Features & Flora
Shavahi opened this issue · 41 comments
Feature: Tar pits & asphalt as per AnonTheMouse's original concept.
Flora: All "flora" are mycoid relatives of Netherwrack Nether Wort, can only grow in the Nether on Netherwrack or Soul Sand and with the exception of Flamepads can only grow in light level 6 or less.
Mock-up Pics! Screencap 1, Screencap 1 (with notes), Screencap 2, Screencap 3.
yeilds fireproof wood/planks. Requires Diamond Axe Hoe to harvest. Looks similar to a dark red Giant Mushroom in the shape of a Fir tree. Chance on breaking block to drop a Nethercea (Nether + Panacea) which removes Poison effects.
Recipe to convert 9 Ghastwort to 1 Ghast Tear. Food item, small chance of poisoning player. Requires Diamond Hoe to harvest.
Actual uses for Diamond Hoes! Axes
I'm going to start drawing up the DD for this one. expect this issue to close in the next couple days.
The DD will be found on oneone-whakaaro
Some ideas I had after a pot of coffee in the evening haha.
I definitely agree that the nether needs more "something". My initial thoughts went to a Nether themed variant of the Crystal Forest, without the trees. A crystal cavern biome perhaps? Another thought went to maybe a completely burned out biome, where the netherrack and soulsand would be as basalt ( red power 2 style), pumice, and ash. I also think that a Large Cavern biome would be interesting containing mostly flattish floor and an open area. ( a "good place to build" (about as safe as it gets)) Also, with regards to the Ice hell/Fire hell topic... The two could be separated by a single river that runs continuously through the nether. A.k.a the river Styx, described as a black hellish liquid composed of angry spirits. This could be a new liquid contained in the recent forge liquid dictionary (Stygian Water?). Stygian water could hurt as lava, but not cause fires in addition to being the source of nutrients for any plant life that may exist in the nether, or more crafting recipes, potions... etc.
We've already seen that the Nether is naturally abundant in fungal life. So, obviously, mycoids are the first choice. Most of these fungi would grow in the dark. I like the idea of giant mushrooms shaped something like pine trees.
That said, creating a faux-ecosystem is appealing. Why not have plant-like life growing clustered around glowstone? Of course, these plants would be extremely hostile. With the only two source of light in the nether being lava and glowstone, these plants would have to be extremely protective of their light source. It would also make mining glowstone a little more challenging, since it's kind of a joke at the moment.
Also ivy, moss, mold, or something of the like growing up the pillars and walls of nether dungeons would be interesting. Break the monotony a little bit.
I agree with the statements made against certain colors in the nether. Everything I have seen so far in EBXL is very well placed and fitting. I think you need to be very careful to maintain this feel when fiddling with generation in the Nether. For this same reason, I think Nether flora should be VERY rare.
Hmm... Nether plants ... not just mushrooms.
Well, perhaps stuff that can grow on netherrack, like real world bacteria that eats rocks to support cave eco-systems. So maybe plants that grow on the sides of the walls.
Light level 0, on netherrack, when there is netherrack no more than 5 spaces above it. Can grow on the sides or top of netherrack.
Small cave-like areas, or the edges of the walls of the smaller sections of the caves, where there are no fireball explosions or lava around. The colder, darker sections of hell have some life growing on the walls.
Perhaps combine 8 of these, and a bowl, for a nether stew?
Something like vines could be used to create hanging frond-like fungal tendrils. Though, I think that mushroom things might be better for overworld caves. Something that might be interesting for the Nether is to re-purpose and re-size sea life, specifically things like coral and barnacles. Would it be possible to take advantage of how certain mobs persist now, and have "mob plants" like the Aether mod's aechor plant? I'm thinking of a big whippy tentacle coming out of a Netherrack shell. Another possibility, since the Nether seems rocky, might be some kind of moss or lichen.
Giant people-eating plants? That sounds like something you'd find in a jungle more than the nether.
There aren't enough animals in the nether to feed carnivores like that.
Hmm ... nether animals...
predatory plants are generally the idea I had in mind with my contribution above. But I feel that anything in the nether other than fungal should be wooded dry plants, hense my brambles suggestion. The idea of something similar to a venus fly trap which is a very tender and humid plant existing in the climbs of somewhere hellish feels quite misplaced to me.
Fungus is good because fungus can be found pretty much anywhere as long as it is dark enough, which, in areas the nether is quite dark. Fungus can also be dry.
But I definitely think to mix it up, you need to break away from fungus where already pervades the nether as it's only plant life. So woody, dry, thorny, twisty, gnarly plants are the way to diversify that without treading too much on the theme of the nether.
The main reason I suggested fungus-like "plants" for the nether is that it's mostly dark. Plants in general, barring a few parasitic exceptions, require light. I would suggest that anything that's an actual plant need to grow near lava or glowstone. Unless, perhaps, they just look like plants, and are actually some sort of sessile animal. I do like the idea of basing some of the "flora" on coral, barnacles & such. Give it a nice alien feel.
Also, would deep purple (like the nether portals) be an acceptable color for the hellbloom/firebane? And maybe just a pale, washed-out greyish version of the brick red of netherrack for the ghastwort, and not bright white?
Wanted to throw this idea in here:
Since Nether is supposed to remind the player of a fiery, hot hell, how about intorducing a large-sized biome that's an extremely cold, polar opposite of the nether? I admit its a big change from the usual Nether landscape but there are all kinds of hells, not just the hot ones. Sorry for not making any textures but I'm not very good at making them so I leave that to whoever wants to do it.
General Description:
I imagine the Chill-Areas to be colored in blue-ish colors that imply the area is extremely cold, opposed to the normal nether that implies it is extremely hot. The ground of "the Chill" itself is composed of Netherfrost, a blue recolor of netherrack which is slightly harder then normal Netherrack (+5-10%?) and it's impossible for it to catch fire. The Chill will not generate any Lavastreams due to the cold, instead the player can find lakes and rivers made of obsidian. Very Rarely the Obsidian will be generated in a tree-like structure with various branches that expand horizontally, featuring another variety of glowing crystals as leaves ("Glowing Crystals").
Due to lack of lava the Chill will be darker then the rest of the Nether so we need to offer another way to shed some light: I suggest using glowing plants, "Chill Roses". They only spawn in the Chill but can be planted everywhere, except on Netherrack and next to lava. Compared to torches they only offer 3/4 of the light. Attacking them has a chance to drop 1-2 "Chill Rose Seeds".
Alternatively, there could be a variation of soulsand called "Chilled Glowstone" that behaves like sand, emits light similar to a Redstonetorch and increases movespeed (like normal ice).
Gimmicks:
-If the Player drops/places Lava in the Chill, the Lava sourceblock will be turned into Obsidian after a few ticks. The non-source blocks of the Lava will only flow half as far as normally and vanish if there is no lava sourceblock in a 2-3 block radius.
-If the Player places a Netherfrost-block in the Netherbiome, the Netherfrost will slowly turn into Netherrack. Placing Netherrack in the Chill will turn it into Netherfrost.
-If the Player places a Chilled Glowstone in the Netherbiome, the Chilled Glowstone will break and drop Glowstone Dust like a regular Glowstone that is mined by the Player. Placing Glowstones in the Chill has no effect.
Mobs:
-Reskin of Pigman: Sheepman (Yetis?)
-Large Spiders
-Hostile Snowmen (Hostile version of the Snowman the player can build, possibly with demonic face to differentiate between the two)
Various thoughts:
-Place Chilled Glowstone at the bottom of Obsidian-Rivers. I imagine the Nether cooled down, the glowstones fell apart and into the lava before the lava turned into obsidian. Should be about as hard to reach as regular glowstone.
-Instead of Lava, introduce Liquid Nitrogen or a similar Liquid. Dont really have an idea about its behaviour (turns water into ice, but what else?) but it can be used with the Obsidian-Rivers: first two layers consist of Liquid Nitrogen, a few layers of Obsidian and 1-2 layers of Chilled Glowstone would be an example.
-If Liquid Nitrogen is introduced, idea for random structure: a "fountain" built out of Chilled Glowstone with one block of Liquid Nitrogen on top.
-Allow Nether Fotresses/bridges to spawn? Create Chilled version of Netherbricks and construct Fortresses/bridges out of them?
Ohh, niiice. Nice ice.
Now, what do you see happening at the border of the two? Where Hell meets Chill inside The Nether, what do you see happening?
No idea to be honest. If the EBXL Intelligent Terrain works someone could suggest a biome that fits between these two.
The problem is that the Nether is, essentially, a cave world. To separate them I was going to suggest a river with cobblestone and obsidian on the edges of the fiery side and ice on the frozen side but that only works for the bottom. How about a new material that would act as a shell around new biomes... Perhaps a several block think border of Soul Glass that can be seen through. To make it more interesting there could be pockets of Soul sand embedded in it and veins of Glowstone.
No idea to be honest. If the EBXL Intelligent Terrain works someone could suggest a biome that fits between these two.
The problem is that the Nether is, essentially, a cave world
Basically, Nether is a dimension that currently has one biome, and a cave world landscape. Mystcraft lets you have cave worlds with multiple biomes (and yes, it has the hell biome).
But for this, having both Hell biome and Chill biome inside the nether, the middle would either be nothing -- they are in direct contact -- or else something that is a barrier.
"Nether Shore" might be a wall of netherrack / netherfrost. In fact, it might be two biomes.
If -- and this is an if for someone that knows Perlin Noise generators -- if it is possible to divide the nether into a two color map (*), the it is possible to give the border "two sides". One side would be solid netherrack from roof to floor, the other side solid netherfrost from roof to floor.
This fits the whole idea of "hot and cold zones of hell, separated from each other" right out of some mythologies.
(*): As far as I know, vanilla minecraft does this as step one of landscape generation: This is where the oceans go, and this is where all the various biomes go. It even knows how to put beaches, rivers, and "-edge" biomes along the border when needed. So my first guess is that this is already solved with existing vanilla code.
An interesting idea, even if that makes it really hard to find those cold Nether regions in the first place. Encapsulating the region in any kind of glass reminds me too much of Risugamis Biosphere terrain generator.
Maybe we can use some sort of neutral block that fits into the Nether as the border, like Soulsand or Soulgravel (which would NOT fall, but otherwise be the same as normal Gravel).
Yeah, I thought of soulsand at first but changed it to soulglass since it could allow instances where we have sections of the biomes / regions above and below the other. I also thought it would be good to have a border that can be seen through.
I dont think glass should occur naturally in the Nether in any form. Crystals and Ice-Blocks appearing in the Chill are understandable, but glass? Maybe as a recipe for the players to craft...
As for the Biomes: If the Nether Caveworld is simialr to the Caveworld behavior in Mystcraft, then there wont be any biomes stacked above/below each other. The game seems to make the map, draw a line and everything between the bedrock and the sky becomes turns into a specific biome. If you dig down/up in the chill you will never ever arrive in a different biome.
The ony problem right now seems to be to find a way to properly create a borderregion between Chill and Nether.
hate to be the party pooper, and while the idea of hell freezing over is an interesting one, I personally would prefer the normal nether biome have far greater spread of content. Rather than an entirely new and completely contrasting biome be added.
So clearly we need a new dimension.
What were we saying about a new frozen-redstone based technology?
Other than rarity, do these mycoids have any other growth requirments (light level, etc?)
Please make a case for the Ghastwort to Ghast tear recipe. Ghast tears are (fauna?) mob drops. Other than giving the item a use, what would be the reasoning behind the recipe and relationship of Ghastwort to Ghasts?
Well, I'd say that the mycoids can only grow in the Nether; no transplanting to the Overworld. Beyond that, hmm... Light level 6 or less? Except for the flamepads which need to tolerate the light level of the lava. So no finding flora near Glowstone. And honestly I was just kinda throwing the Ghastwort recipe out there. Perhaps simply having it as a food source with a slight chance to poison the player would be better.
I wanted something that would stand out in the red/black/yellow color scheme of the Nether. I associate blue with coolness and I thought that fitting since the Hellbloom provides fire resistance. Maybe rename it Firebane? Also, most of the mycoid graphic would be brick red like Nether Wart, just the "flower" part would be blue. Same with Ghastwort; mostly red, "flower" part white.
What about in the middle with a dark purpley color like nether brick? Maybe even could be used in conjunction with normal bricks to make nether brick. (They are fire resistant too since they sit in giant magma pools without smelting :P)
Ghastwort are like onions, and they make Ghasts cry of course :P
And hell bloom and blue just don't sound right to me... well maybe its just blue and the nether that seems funky?
Sound like great ideas to me though other than that!
Hmm... I've been looking around the wiki and you can mine Nether Brick with just a stone shovel. So having another very similar building material that has to be harvested with diamond tools is unbalanced/redundant. I like flying around & building without limits, so most of the time I play with TMI or with "cheats" enabled, I tend to forget things like this.
Okay, other uses ... maybe there's a chance when you break a Netherwood block for it to drop a food item that would counteract the poison effect of the Hellbloom/Firebane.
I think restricting the color palette for flora in the nether would be important. Commonly used colors In the the nether should be red/brown/black and any combo of those. Minorly used colors should be yellow/tan/orange and any combo of.
Cold colors (blue/green/purple/white) should not be used unless in extremely rare cases and even then in sparing amounts.
The nether is a hostile place and so anything that exists there as far as flora should be hostile in nature. When I imagine nether flora I imagine giant thorny forests not like a cactus but great giant brambles. smaller brambles and fungus can be found in other places similar to how you find flowers in the overworld.
touching giant brambles should stab you like cactus. And approaching giant mycanoid trees should poison you (breathing in toxic spores)
@Rosethorns nether fauna = good 3D render candidate?
Absolutely. I just tried throwing togeather a bramble mock in techne. but
it wasn't having it. I can't seem to save or load in techne. shrug
On 28 August 2012 13:13, ScottKillen [email protected] wrote:
@Rosethorns https://github.com/Rosethorns nether fauna = good 3D render
candidate?—
Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com//issues/64#issuecomment-8076487.
What about using re-skinned spiderwebs as the brambles, with movement reduction + damage on contact.
Not reskinned Shavahi but definately the small brambles would be that big in my mind, the large brambles are more like the size of trees in the overworld.
Well, I dont notice any other suggestions for new netherbiomes apart from planting mushrooms and thorny things^^
We could alway try to apply the cracked sand principle, meaning you can force hell/nether to freeze over by building a specific structure and activating it:
The structure has a chance of converting nearby Netherrack into netherfrost and Lavasourceblocks into obsidian.
Every Netherfrost connected to the structure (directly and indirectly) also has a chance of converting nearby Netherrack into netherfrost.
Deactivating or destroying the structure will reverse the process, giving every Netherforst (no matter the position) a chance of reverting into Netherrack.
I think that any biomes used in the Nether will have to be vastly different from the way overworld biomes are done. Technically, I don't think that they can even be biomes at all. Instead, I think it would be better to handle them as terrain features, working in a way similar to fortresses and ravines. Thus, you get the main terrain of the Nether, but are able to have pockets and sheets of different types of terrain mixed through. For example, there might be a long lava lake, ten or more blocks deep, with irregular Obsidian pillars shot through with glowstone coming out of it, and a rare "island" of Netherrack, with gravel beaches. In another location you might come to a network of caverns made up of a hard stone-like form of Netherrack, complete with stalagmites and stalagtites, lit only by glowing lichen and home to a higher than usual number of Magma cubes, with natural patches of Netherwart growing here and there.
I cant really see EBXL starting to branch into the dimension buiness. Thats more up Mystcrafts alley...
I cant really see EBXL starting to branch into the dimension buiness. Thats more up Mystcrafts alley...
When it comes to new dimensions, I'm inclined to agree. There's a lot that goes into those that's a bit tangential to what EBXL does. Not to mention, we already have Mystcraft compatibility to do scenic dimensions. It's not my call, but that's my personal feelings.
Prettying up the existing dimensions, though. Well that's a horse of a different colour. I think that falls exactly into what EBXL does best. Specifically, giving players new reason to explore the old worlds, without needing to go to entirely new dimensions.